Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

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Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Pleading Eyes » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 pm

Wow! This funny little theory has found it's way on tvtropes (ctrl + f "biological" for a quick find), gamefaqs, and that crack community boobjection. You can also find the CR thread here. Happy investigating!

The Ace Attorney series is one that shines above the crowd for its sympathetic characters, gripping (and at times hilarious) storylines, and tantalizing puzzles. Although by the end of each case the murder is always solved, some answers remained shrouded in mystery, leaving us to speculate and investigate what few clues we have until the next exciting installment.

But few questions are as nagging or as important as the one surrounding the series' new protagonist and protege to our beloved hero: Just who is Apollo Justice's real father?

Here at the PWTMP, Pleading Eyes and Diana Rose believe they may have stumbled upon a possible answer. But how? Why do we believe this man, out of all possible known or as of yet to be shown characters, is the one we seek? To answer that, let us first begin by examining what we know of Mr. Justice himself.


Apollo’s name choice in the English localization has always been odd. For one, Justice isn’t even a pun. It’s blatantly just a word. Since Apollo is an orphan, though, perhaps we can make some excuse for how he came to this surname. But what about his first name? What does the Greek God Apollo have to do with anything?

In Greek mythology, Apollo’s father was Zeus...

EXHIBIT A: VISUAL EVIDENCE

The AA character designers are very detail oriented with their work. Everyone looks different and characters that are related or close share several mannerisms.

Examples:
*The Gavin Brothers
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*Edgeworth and the von Karmas
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*Phoenix and Mia in court
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*Even Thalassa's known husband (Zak) and their daughter (Trucy)
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From this we know visual clues are a safe form of evidence, so it’s not a stretch to say that the designers may have planned around this. What's my point?

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Does this pose look familiar? Brace yourselves, because you are NOT prepared.

In Greek mythology, Apollo’s father was Zeus... Zeus was the basis for the design of none other THAN…!

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Looking at them side by side, the resemblance in their position is a bit startling. But we’ve only just begun.

Take a look at this:
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They both hold their arms behind their backs. A bit of an odd position, no? Especially for a hero. Holding your arms behind your back usually implies something to hide, not the open and often times too blunt (but lovably so!) young defense attorney we know. The only other characters who do this in the entire series are Kristoph and Lana when she’s being cold; which is directly influenced by Gant!

I know what you're thinking. A couple similarities are just coincidence! Maybe so, but I'd say three is a pattern.
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The sweating, the drooping spikes, hunched over, both fists on the table in front of them. How much more similar could they get?

What about nervous or deflecting tells?
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Remember in AJ when Trucy mentions how Apollo has an intense stare? Now that may be partially credited to his Gramarye Perceiving abilities, but who else has such an intense gaze?

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Oh yeah. The Gant stare.

If you’re still not convinced, consider this: They're both said to have unusually LOUD voices. Gant laugh vs Chord of Steel?

And… Something about their actual faces sticks out at me.

Hmm… I wonder…

Do you see it?

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Double-pronged eyebrows.

Their eye construction's also pretty similar; same shape. The highlight hits their eyes in the same spot, Gant's are just more creased

And this just in:
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Apollo concept art. EERIE similarities between him and Gant here, even in the planning stages. Check those bangs, guys.

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Could Gant's prototype designs have inspired Apollo's final design?

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Looks like they even considered Gant orange for Apollo's color scheme.

Right about now you're probably starting to feel a bit uneasy. But we've only just begun...
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Pleading Eyes » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:08 pm

EXHIBIT B: THE STORY/TIMELINE

Do you remember what year SL-9 occured? According to court-records.net it was 2015. Something else interesting happened that year, just a little thing. Someone was shot and "killed". Someone by the name of Thalassa Gramarye. And then... she vanished.

Let’s backtrack a bit to the early 2000s. You all remember those, we were there. So, seventeen year old Thalassa, desperate to escape from her controlling father whose only concern is with his Troupe’s performances, meets an organist in his early 50s. He gets hired to work for the troupe in their performances, and helps Thalassa discover her natural talent for singing. She’s young, naïve, and feels trapped in this world of illusions and tricks. This man is charismatic, sweet, and offers her an escape through music.

Consider this, how many Chiefs of Police have full sized organs that they can PLAY in their office? Further, the salary of police chiefs isn't THAT high--how did he AFFORD such a thing? And why be in such great shape at his age? He's in his 60's when we meet him in PW1-5. People don’t stay buff and tan for no reason, especially since he works a desk job now. Unless they're performers. Or they WERE performers, which, we're told, Apollo's father was. Even if Gant was a police officer at the time, for all we know, he took a vacation and decided to take up performing with the organ. Or maybe he was undercover, investigating the disappearance of Thalassa's mother. Whatever the reason, for some reason, Gant briefly spent time as an organist, and there he met Thalassa.

Magnifi Gramarye would have been against this union for two reasons.
1. It's scandalous! Gant is in his 50s and poor Thalassa is only 17.
2. Thalassa starts to get pulled away from magic, because he's introducing her to music.

As we already know (seeing as Magnifi was willing to smuggle his daughter away and even pin his own death on the apprentice he did not want inheriting the rights), all that Magnifi cares about is performing his act and the Troupe. Both of these issues would have threatened the Troupe, which Magnifi is adamantly against! Then, just to add insult to injury, Thalassa gets TEEN PREGNANT. Gant can't have that, he was in this for the benefits. He doesn’t want to be tied down to a silly teenage girl forever. So Magnifi decides to help get Gant out of it... by staging his death and letting him escape. Magnifi’s only condition: That Gant never bother Thalassa again.

Having been completely dependant on Gant, Thalassa is forced to return to her father and the Troupe. Magnifi forces her to rid herself of the child, since he wants nothing to do with it. Apollo is sent to an orphanage, but Thalassa leaves him her bracelet, hoping to return for him someday when she can provide for him herself.

Gant goes off, moves to LA, becomes a cop. Meanwhile, Thalassa meets her father’s newest apprentice, Shadi Enigmar, better known as Zak Gramarye.

Fast forward to 2015. SL9; Gant kills a man by the name of Neil Marshall. Why? The game states so he can control Lana, but he has nothing to gain from controlling her at this point. He's not Chief of police and she's not a prosecutor. They have exactly the same amount of power. So why go to all the trouble? Why kill a man on a whim? The assault on Neil and Ema would have been enough evidence to convict Darke. That, on top of the circumstantial evidence (which IS perfectly admissible when there is no concrete proof to be found), on top of Darke's CONFESSIONS and the fact that he wasn't likely to hire an attorney, is more than enough for him to get what he deserved. He assaulted a PROSECUTOR and a MINOR. Those are some serious crimes. With the slant towards the prosecution present in the AA world, it is only logical to conclude that they would have won. The only reason we didn't hear the evidence about the assault was because Gant doctored the scene. Why commit a murder and elaborately alter the scene to frame someone else, when it would have been much easier to just use the assault? Unless… he had reason to kill Neil outside of this.

Rewind a few weeks. A few months, maybe. Thalassa Grammarye is shot and "killed". The police show up. Magnifi Gramarye requests a certain detective in specific handle the case; Damon Gant. The prosecutor who comes to investigate with him? Neil Marshall. The best of the best go on high profile cases, after all, and Neil would have been King of Prosecutors that year. Magnifi enlists Gant's aid in smuggling Thalassa out of the country. But Neil… Neil doesn't like that. He thinks it's an obstruction of justice. Neil knows too much. If only he could make Neil shut his big MOUTH!

Fast forward back to SL-9. How did Joe Darke even get away? He was in police custody, and as they knew him to be a serial killer, there was no way they'd let him out of their sites for even a moment! Unless a certain Detective had a motive to let a killer run free. And just as Gant planned, ever-heroic Neil gives chase after Darke. By the time Gant arrives at the scene there's Neil, unconscious, and a perfect scapegoat sitting right next to him, who will ensure his partner Lana's silence if she—being an exemplary detective—figures out what Gant did. A plan forms… He'll murder Neil, silencing him, and pin it on Ema. With this he convicts Darke, which gets him promoted the Chief of police, so no one at the precinct will investigate him. And by shoving Lana into position as head prosecutor, no pesky prosecutor will get involved either. It's the perfect plan. And with Thalassa safely overseas with a bad case of amnesia, Gant's free to be as high-profile and famous as he likes without her discovering he’s alive.
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Pleading Eyes » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:09 pm

EXHIBIT C: WHAT’S IN A NAME?

We all know the characters in the Ace Attorney series are purposely named for puns or after some aspect of their personality. What can we gather about these characters from the titles given them?

We’ve already discussed the link between Apollo’s name and Gant’s:
Gant’s design was based on Zeus
Zeus was Apollo’s father in Greek mythology
Gant is Apollo’s father

While this does not hold up in the Japanese versions, Apollo's Japanese name sounds like something he could have conceivably picked out for himself--his first name LITERALLY means "Law Boy". His last name blatantly is just the word for "a surprise". Apollo was abandoned very young. He might very well have picked out his own name. Plus, the writers of the localization may have known this plot twist was coming and planned accordingly, making Apollo's name a sort of in-joke with the localization team.

What about Gant and Thalassa? Thalassa's name is a reference to a sea goddess in English AND in Japanese (Yuumi = Water). Gant's English name is based on his Japanese one, which contains the kanji for "ocean". Gant also enjoys "swimming".

Further, Leto is the mother of Zeus's twins, Apollo and Artemis...

genodragon1 wrote:Want more mythology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leto

TAKE THAT!

Leto is the Titan goddess of being unseen. That sounds an awful lot like magic, doesn't it? It just adds more to the analogy, really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemis
Artemis later became identified with Selene,[2] a Titaness who was a Greek moon goddess, sometimes depicted with a crescent moon above her head. She was also identified with the Roman goddess Diana,[3] with the Etruscan goddess Artume, and with the Greek or Carian goddess Hecate.[4]


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Look at Trucy's hair.


I don't know about you, but I can see that Trucy's (and Thalassa's) hair could have conceivably been influenced by the shape of the crescent moon, even if it's not so blatant on Trucy.

It is also interesting to note that the creators of AJ seem to enjoy putting in characters from or references to PW1-5. Was this a purposeful tie? With the AA writers' knack for weaving together their characters' pasts, would this not make a fascinating connection between Ema and Apollo?

If all this is true, one must really feel for Thalassa. As she says at the end of the AA4, "This is the first time I've ever been truly happy." 40 years of unhappiness... the poor woman. Gant has stricken again.

So what does this all mean? Insane theory? Or plot of the next installment in the series? You tell us! (PS: the answer is we're awesome) In the meantime, all we know is that the truth of Apollo's lineage remains a vital piece of the puzzle with no definitive answer... for now.

But before you go, would you be so kind as to look at this for me one more time?

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This post will be updated if and when any more evidence comes to light.
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Pooleterson » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:29 pm

...okay. My mind is blown. It's hard to type this just from the mind-blowingness. *starts a slow-clap*
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Pleading Eyes wrote:Oh Poole, like all people in power, your delusional justifications for your actions just make you such a loveable rapscallion!
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Officer 1BDI » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:36 pm

Bloody hell.

...

Bloody hell!

Zeth has a brother?! D: *shot*

(Seriously, though... wow. :shock: Have you two shared this with the C-R forums yet? Because joking or not, I seriously think you're onto something.)
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Pleading Eyes » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:00 am

Officer 1BDI wrote:(Seriously, though... wow. :shock: Have you two shared this with the C-R forums yet? Because joking or not, I seriously think you're onto something.)


http://forums.court-records.net/the-hyd ... 18436.html

That's a link linking to this post which links to that post which links to this post that links to that post which--*A'SPLODE*
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Kartoon Kween » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:14 am

Oh, dang! I thought my mind was blown when I noticed this, but this totally takes the cake!

If they make this canon I will hyperventilate.
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby Rose » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:28 am

If they go that route with the story, I might stop hating Apollo.

...maybe.
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Re: Apollo's REAL Father... Revealed?

Postby DetectiveEma » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:04 pm

I think that I was just overloaded with woah. O_O
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